JS: Let me introduce you to the author of this book. His name is Jorge Bas Vall. He graduated as an Urban Planner from the Barcelona School of Architecture. He tells that after three years of successful professional practice, one windy fall night, like today, but in winter, in the silence of his professional study, he wondered if his whole life was going to consist of being a brilliant Architect. The answer was that of this, nothing. It was said no. After a few months in 1977, he graduated from the Transcendental Meditation program at the Maharishi European Research University in Switzerland, and later in different higher degrees at the same University. Since then, he has been a professor of the Transcendental Meditation program around the world and has worked for a long time in direct contact with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, its founder, developing important educational projects in Latin America and the Caribbean. Over the years he has resided in eight different countries and has studied the ancient traditions of knowledge of him at different universities. Today, Jorge Bas Vall can be considered without any doubt a specialist in the study of Consciousness and being human as one of its manifestations among other things. Welcome, good afternoon, sir.
How to pronounce this: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi…
JBV: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Maharishi European Research University.
JS: And that was an illumination, an autumn afternoon?
JBV: No, the idea is that at that time, the 70s, there was a lot of interest in knowing who we were, what life was like, and I found myself working as an Architect precisely here in Almería. I was delighted with the profession, but suddenly I wondered if all life was going to be about being a brilliant Architect. I said no. When I was little, I asked all the grandparents who were sunbathing on the street, what life had looked like to them, and they all told me how bad it was. They were a little disappointed, a little sad, and most of all, with an obvious fear of dying. So, I, at age seventy’s, thought: Are you going to end up like this? Well, you better consider it because you still have time.
And the truth is that throughout my life I have alternated the exercise of the profession of Architect with the study of human Consciousness. And the reality is that this book is the fruit of thirty years of continuous research.
JS: We are God, this book that I have in my hands is presented the day after tomorrow at the Picasso bookstore, at seven thirty in the afternoon. In case you want to get closer and meet its author.
Thirty years studying human Consciousness.
What conclusion can you reach, or have you reached?
JBV: I have clearly observed that in all the ancient traditions there are some unknowns that we have not yet solved. And some passages that we have not yet interpreted correctly.
The bottom line is that as human beings we still need a higher evolutionary leap. Because?
Well, because we have a much broader Nature than we think, and we do not know it.
What do we know about the Human Being?
That we are rational animals.
Quite animal, and quite rational.
But the question is: Is that all we can be?
And the answer is no.
Where is the secret of our true Nature, and of our future? In being what we must be: To be full Human Beings.
Where did we go wrong, where did we screw up, where did we get lost?
Well, listen, Genesis says it very clearly:
Our first parents, Eva, walking around the Garden of Eden, goes, and suddenly someone says to her, why don’t you eat this apple?
The fruit of the tree of the Science of Good and Evil. According to Genesis wonderfully. So, Eva, for whatever reason, decided to eat the apple freely, and there it seems that we got into trouble.
What mess, and how do we interpret this fact that I liked a lot when I was little?
We have an evolutionary line of millions of years, and there came a time when one of us ancestors suddenly looked at each other, and said: Is that me? You were suddenly aware that he existed.
Hey, how did this happen? It’s very simple.
A kitten and a puppy, adorable, are aware of a series of needs, but are not aware of themselves, that they exist. They do not have it. Because? Because they lack a bit of evolution. But we, there came a time that we had it. Very well. Hey, but that’s me.
There, for the first time in millions of years, we became aware of our own existence. And not only about this, but what we thought. We could think I’ll do it this way; I’ll do it the other way. And then there we had two options: to be aware of ourselves and of everything that surrounds us, of the Universe, and of all the millions of Universes that exist, or, to focus on the process of reflection: now I think, now I do this, and decide I don’t know what.
So, we confuse consciousness with a process of reflection. And we get hooked on the process of reflection. What does this mean?
Reflection process means staying hooked on what the mind decides. And the mind, by system, by structure, is a dual element. Good, bad, black, white, and fractionate: this one and me, and the other one. We are in a dual universe that we would like to get out of, but we don’t get out for the moment.
JS: Jorge, can’t we wonder who has shaped our mind? Because it gives the impression that here what is governed is the single thought.
JBV: Very good question, Joaquín.
Who has shaped our mind? Us.
Let’s see, look, when we decided or suddenly realized that we were thinking, the first thing we did is create ourselves. That is, I am so-and-so, and from now on I am me and you are you. We, deep down, are an invention of our own thinking process. Okay, mind doesn’t really exist. I mean, what exists? A magnificent brain, highly developed, with incredible neurophysiological sophistication, that can think and, in fact, emits thoughts. Okay, but we have made a mind and a personality out of this thinking process. And there we have confused the consciousness of ourselves with the process of reflection.
A confusion evidently very developed over time, whose highest representative is Descartes in his Discourse on Method. I think, therefore I exist. Well. And what does it mean? That we attribute our entire existence to thinking. Fake.
So, the famous apple was not a ban. Do not eat from this tree, but a prevention. Be careful with this tree, because this tree will put you in a process of suffering, slavery, and death.
You are right. The apple was assuming the dual universe of the mind, identifying with the process of thinking.
What other alternatives does this book propose?
Many people have already proposed during history: hey, the brain is magnificent, the thinking process is wonderful, but there are more things. What is the matter?
Stop identifying with the process of thinking, with the ego, and with the false nature of the I that we have created. And simply integrate with Everything …
JS: And build a new person, a new identity …
JBV: Build what is necessary to build: our integration with everything Created to begin with, and then our integration with the Infinity to finish.
JS: Speaking of the apple, Jorge, I always wondered why it was Eva and not Adam who gave him the bite.
JBV: A delicate question …
A delicate matter but, look, all the ancient writings are magnificent and adorable. They talk about magnificent things, but they are all written by someone. I think Eva was held responsible because the text was written by some man.
JS: We are God, the title of a book that, really, very interesting, very suggestive. One question… In these years that he has travelled as before I have commented through different countries, he has known different cultures, and a variety of people… Are we so alike, or are we different? From the point of view of Consciousness, for example, which you have previously pointed out.
JBV: Human beings are the same. What happens is that we have used the ability to think to create different personalities, different cultures, different religions, and there are the differences. Look, also, the present society says it very clearly. When one says yes, the other says no. Because? Because the mind works like this. He wants to differentiate himself; he wants to impose his criteria. So, we are in a humanity of criteria, of struggles, of antagonistic points of view, and everyone wants to be right. Gentleman, this is a fantasy.
The true reality is that all human beings have an Infinite Nature, all human beings can be Eternal, and all human beings can be One with God. No gods because God has no competition. We have manufactured a mental god, but to say that we are gods is nonsense. We alone can be either a misery, or pure Infinity. And that matter has now come to be considered seriously.
JS: And this is in our hands …?
JBV: Yes. And the book asks precisely why we have not realized it, we have not done any sin, we have simply gone the wrong way. We have taken the exit door different from the one we had to take and instead of going into the Throne Room, we have gone into the basement. And now that?
JS: We want to get out of the basement …
JS: It is normal that Almería caught him when he arrived. When were you here in the 1970s?
JBV: I arrived in Almería on March 10, 72. Precisely to do the Militia Practices in the Álvarez de Sotomayor Camp.
JS: On Viator.
JBV: Yes, on Viator. It’s called the Legion Camp now, I think. Well, there I was my first four months in Almería. Fortunately for me, due to a selection of personnel that they made when we entered in the Camp, I had to work in the Psychology Department of the Camp. So, I would arrive at 10 in the morning and leave at 11 after presenting myself to my Superiors, and for 15 days that the new replacement arrived we would do psychotechnical tests to the soldiers. But I only worked 15 days. But permanence had to be. Well, then when I went out, I would take the car and get lost. I said, now I’m going to get lost on this path, to see where I’m going, and hey, I was fascinated. Almería is fascinating. And when I decided to come here, my friends told me: Hi, handsome, in Almería there is nothing…
JS: That’s why …
JBV: And I looked at them and said: But I like it!
And I have always liked it.
Look, I think that Almería has something that no other place in Spain has, I think, and it is a geomagnetic nature that influences the neurophysiological system very notably. I mean, there is a powerful Biogeology. Biogeology is a little-known science, but it studies how the subject feels in a geographical position due to its geomagnetic and subsoil structure. Well, listen, I was very surprised because here in Almería, after a very short time I said to myself: This is your place.
JS: Absolute magnetism, that of this earth.
JS: I have here an article, an interview that you did on a page of La Voz de Almería in 1975, nothing more and nothing less. And the headline of the article reads like this: Originality is measured by another scale of values. You are where you are good. What exists is a design error. An article that talks about your point of view of the Architect that you are. He worked in Almería, opened an office on a street called Avenida del Generalísimo. You must go back to the year 75 obviously to remember that name. How was that stage of profession in Almería?
JBV: After finishing the Militia Practices I spent a month of vacation in Almería, and then I went up to Catalonia, which is my birthplace. In September I went on a trip to the United States with friends of my profession, and the next spring I took a truck, packed all my things, closed the studio in Barcelona, and came here. I settled in Aguadulce, opened an office on Avenida del Generalísimo, a magnificent building, on the third floor, and I told myself that this was exactly my place. Since then, I started doing projects all very important.
JS: Sorry, what work of yours is there in Almería that we see every day, and that we don’t know that you are the Architect?
JBV: Look, I worked the most important thing in Urbanism. I made a Partial Plan of 700 hectares that took Agua Amarga, Carboneras, and a more inland part in Nijar. This Plan was approved by Generalísimo Franco in his last Council of Ministers because it was a Plan that included territories owned by the State. In other words, the Roldán plateau, for example, is property of the State. Then these Partial Plans were approved by the Council of Ministers. Well, this Plan was magnificent, and then there are some buildings. But I had a great time in an office in which almost all the projects appeared here in the Press, and which lasted four magnificent years.
JS: From your point of view as an Architect and citizen, when over the years you look at this city, and some corners of the province, I ask you how Architect, and if he’s so kind, what is your opinion of how has been built in recent years?
JBV: In recent years Almería, in general, has a lot of Architectural coherence. But as was already written in the La Voz de Almería interview, cities and towns are not only their buildings. Its buildings deep down reflect an internal coherence.
The towns of Almería are charming, and Almería capital too. I am in love with Almería, but when I come now, and I walk up and down, I really enjoy it. So, I see buildings of all types, but does it matter if the buildings are prettier or uglier? No, what is important is how you feel about the place. In any case, Almería is a city that breathes good taste, also breathes a historical and classic taste, perceptible regardless of concepts and ideas.
JS: And thank God…
JBV: But the important thing is that it’s okay here. And the journalist’s headline is: You are where you are well, because he asked me if here in Almería there were places where you were better than in others, and why was I here. Hey, dear friend, one sits in a place because it is fine, not because it is beautiful or because I do not know what …
JS: Allow me one last question. We have started talking about this book for those interested who want to attend the day after tomorrow at the presentation at the Picasso bookstore, at seven thirty in the afternoon, of the book We are God, by Jorge Bas Vall.
As a Catalan, now I want to know his opinion about a little thing. We are jumping from one topic to another.
Why do Catalans, various parts of society, or a small part of Catalan society, want to become independent from Spain?
Do you agree with this?
JBV: NO. Spain is a huge and coherent country.
I believe that all the differences come from the Iberians and the Celts, the first barbarians to enter Spain. In Catalonia a mixture of Iberians and Celts was made that were called the Celtiberians. And those Celtiberians immediately fought with the Iberians and the Celts for sanguine, family, political, and savage reasons. This is a very old record, the crude and prehistoric origin of the divergence begins to be seen.
About your question:
I am not Catalan, I am Universal.
But if you want me to tell you the truth, I can’t help being born in Catalonia. It is unavoidable. But does this mean something more than a coincidence of existence? Well, no.
Ladies and gentlemen, I believe that we must progress as human beings and arrive at the coincidence that instead of the difference we must promote similarity. We have things in common. Listen, it is not that we have things in common, it is that we are the same Nature, and we get lost in illusory situations of geographic limitation, in financial confusion, or in falsehoods of the Law.
Hey, let’s be a little more reasonable that this has now come to an end. The rational animal fighting with its neighbour is over. And if it doesn’t end, it will end suddenly. Let’s be reasonable, let’s stop being nonsense, we are Nature itself, and it’s about time that we realize that this neighbour, even if it’s I don’t know what, I don’t know how many, I don’t know fifths, is the same as you.
JS: It’s true, that’s the essence …
I’d like to continue talking to you at another time, if you like, Jorge. Voucher?
JBV: Whenever you want.
SJ: It was a pleasure meeting you. Thanks for the visit.
JBV: Thank you for your kindness.